Do you know what the real definition of a lazy tenor is?
A very rich baritone!
–Thomas Hampson
Last Spring, I switched from baritone to tenor. Since I wrote about it, a lot of people have found this blog by asking the question via Google: Am I a tenor or a baritone?
The answer: it depends.
Fach Identity
There is a lot of identity that goes with singing within a certain fach (voice type). One person’s personality may be attracted to one kind of character over another, but their voice may point them in a different direction.
Baritones, alas, tend to play more villains (Scarpia, Jago, Jud Fry, Javert) or ‘dudes of questionable integrity’ (Count Almaviva, Oppenheimer) than tenors.
At best, tenors tend to be lovers (Nemorino, Fenton, Rinuccio, Rodolfo, Alfredo, Faust) and heroes (Siegfried, Jean Valjean), and, at their worst, they can be jerks (Pinkerton) or creeps (Hermann), but they are rarely murderers (Don José).
If you are a baritone who wants to play heroes all the time, your options may be limited in opera (both Figaros, Valentin) and more plentiful in musical theater (Curly, Lancelot, Marius).
In my situation, I was looking at a handful of baritone roles that I could credibly play. I was hoping that I could be the next Thomas Hampson and get some of the rarely performed baritone versions of popular tenor roles tenor roles transposed (Werther
Questions to Ask Yourself
None of these questions are fool-proof. Some baritones have high passaggi and some tenors have a hard time with high C’s, but these can get you thinking more clearly about who you are:
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Are you uncomfortable or in pain?
If you feel sore when you sing, whether it’s high or low, then you may want to try something else. If A2 on the bass clef feels bad to you, then you may be a higher voice. But if E4 feels bad to you even after regular practice, then you may have a low voice.
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Where is your passaggio?
Where is the most unstable area of your voice? That’s your passaggio. Usually, it is a good guide to help you decide whether you are a high or low voiced person. While I was singing baritone, I could never sing G’s very loudly and was worried about that. Well, I couldn’t sing them loudly because they are within my passaggio.
Normally, we speak of having two passaggio breaks: the first break (primo passaggio) and the second break (secondo passaggio) with a zone in between (zona di passaggio).
For me, the zona di passaggio feels similar to singing on a tight rope where one wrong move will cause me voice to flip in and out of falsetto in a fluttery kind of way. It is also difficult to hear my own voice properly there.
Here is the chart from Richard Miler’s The Structure of Singing
laying out men’s passaggio points (with those in parentheses being alternates):
Voice Type primo passaggio secondo passaggio tenorino F4 Bb4 tenore leggiero E4 (Eb4) A4 (Ab4) tenore lirico D4 G4 tenore spinto D4 (C#4) G (F#4) tenore robusto (tenore drammatico) C4 (C#4) F4 (F#4) baritono lirico B3 E4 baritono drammatico Bb3 Eb4 basso cantante A3 D4 basso profondo Ab3 (G3) Db4 (C4) Test out your voice by singing a truly pure “Ah” vowel beginning in your speaking voice area. As you ascend, you will reach a point where you have to tilt your jaw up if you continue to sing in the exact same manner as you began. That’s your primo passaggio. A fourth above is your secondo passaggio. This doesn’t work in 100% of cases, but it usually is helpful.
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What are the extremes of your range?
I knew that I could sing C5 about 5 years ago when I listened to some tenors and concluded, “I can do that”. I would sing it, but for years I didn’t trust those high notes.
Trust yours. If you have extremes on either side of your voice like extreme low notes or extreme high notes, then admit that they might be telling you something. They may not be developed and strong. But a tenor will not be able to sing B1. If you can, then perhaps you should avoid singing tenor rep. Baritones can’t sing Eb5 outside of falsetto. If you can…
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What is your reaction to other singers?
If you listen to a singer and think “Yes, we can!”, then give it a shot and see. Try what they do. Don’t get attached because it might be wrong for you right now, but there’s nothing wrong in trying something out once. Your gut may be telling you something.
If you feel inadequate after listening to a singer or a sense that it is totally beyond you, then maybe that repertoire is not right for you.
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Are you faking it?
You may not feel any discomfort or pain when you sing, but you may be faking it. Examples of baritone “fakery” include a tongue shoved into your throat or an overly lengthened vocal tract by shoving your lips outward. You may be pulling your top lip down to darken your sound. You may be modifying your vowels too early to create an artificially low passaggio. You may sound incredibly loud to your own ears but small voiced to everyone else.
Fake tenors may have a larynx that is pulled up into the backs of their throats. Or they may be shouting their high notes just to force them out. To give the appearance of a high passaggio, they may keep their voices spread instead of modifying their vowels appropriately. This sound may not sound like singing at all and may be highly unpleasant to listen to (though even the prettiest voice can sound unpleasant if it’s loud and in a small room).
Try singing as simply as you can for awhile and forget all of your technique. Just intone some “Ah”s and try to avoid creating any tension in your throat. Record yourself. What do you hear?
Do I have a choice?
For most people, the answer is ‘no’. For most people, they are clearly in one camp or the other, and there is very little they can do to alter that. The question becomes “What kind of (bass,baritone,tenor,alto,mezzo,soprano) am I?” That takes time to learn as well.
But for some others, they may have a choice. Lauritz Melchior sang as professional baritone before he switched up, and he must have been credible to audiences at the time. Thomas Hampson could probably have made a credible tenor, but he’s done ok for himself.
The choice to remain or change is a highly personal one. If you are toying with the idea then talk to your teacher (and maybe several; I got a second opinion with my teacher’s blessing) and take some time to play with it. There’s no harm in play.
[Have you made a change in your fach? What was the experience like? Was it easy, hard, in between?]
{“Si se puede” frog by artfulblogger.}
The reason I said I use head voice is because I am 13 years old and when I sing anything above a F#5/G5 my voice teacher thinks I am in falsetto. My lowest comfortable note is a G3. My teacher just told me today that I never have been able to sing lower than a G3 and even that is a stretch. Anything below that she told me I am frying my voice or growling which is very unhealthy. When a guy has not undergone puberty yet does this mean that he still has a head voice or is it still head voice. When will I lose my head voice or modal voice in the upper ranges and develope the false voice.
Hi, Ben.
I had no idea that you were 13. I should have asked because that would have explained a lot. Instead, I assumed because of your writing style that you were older. Sorry for that.
You seem concerned about the terms that you’ve learned for your vocal registers and are concerned that you are doing something incorrectly. You also seem to be concerned that your teacher isn’t using the correct terms for your voice. Is that right?
Yes, my voice teacher tells me I am using falsetto but I feel that I am using head voice because I have not gained singable notes lower than a G3. So am I using middle voice for notes (Eb4-F#5)and head voice for notes (G5-C#6) or am I using falsetto.
I see. Thank you for clarifying.
Personally, I wouldn’t call what you do falsetto now that I know that your voice hasn’t changed. I would refer to your high voice as “upper” and your lower voice as “lower”, and I would leave it at that. “Falsetto” for a man is used as a contrast to “modal” or “chest”, and I just don’t see that same level of contrast in someone your age.
I’m sorry that I cannot give you an answer more definitively that that.
There just isn’t any definitive answer on some singing topics. Register theory is one of them, which is why I’m hesitant to go into it. This is especially true for people of your age. Some authors say that boys have no falsetto register at your age, and some suggest otherwise. My personal feeling is that the mechanism for falsetto that is weak in a grown man is the dominant state for a boy, and that modal voice is limited in a boy’s voice.
But I say that humbly and without a lot of certainty.
For your singing, it doesn’t matter. You do not need to know what is exactly going on in your throat to be a good singer. No one knows everything that is going on in your throat, which is why I believe that your teacher knows what she’s doing despite the limitations of her knowledge of what is happening with your vocal registers.
It just doesn’t matter what you call your registers as long as you can sing, if singing is your end goal. People have been learning to sing well for centuries without hard science to guide them.
If however, you are very interested in voice science, then I do suggest that you keep asking these questions and pursuing them. Do well in your physics classes and begin studying vocal anatomy.
Just know, that the science is incomplete at this moment for subtle register shifts. It’s frustrating to everybody, but it gets a little better all the time.
If you are interested in learning more about the science as well as the controversies surrounding registers, then I suggest that you go to the National Center for Voice and Speech and read the articles about how the voice is produced as well as the section Science for Singers. Here’s the website:
http://www.ncvs.org
and
http://www.ncvs.org/e-learning/science4singers.html
i am 14 years old and have been into pueberty for a year now. My voice teacher tells me that i am not done changing, but right now it looks like i am taking a turn for baritone. Is there still a chance i could be tenor? Or does your voice not usually make drastic changes like that. I ask this mostly because i really want to be a tenor. I know that the range of the instrument doesn’t matter its the quality of it that really matters, dosens of singers have told me that, and i know its true. I’m just curious. Thank you in advance for the help
Especially at your age, what’s best for your voice is whatever feels best. If singing baritone repertoire feels best then that’s what you should work on. It’s possible that your voice might move to tenor later, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Instead, focus on what you have now and be the best you can be in the present moment.
I am 15 and my voice has “dropped” a long time ago and it’s really stable (no unexpected voice cracks, for example). I am confused about my voice type because my vocal coach thinks I’m a tenor but I don’t agree. My lowest “acceptable” note, without straining, is an F#/G2. It’s very comfortable for me to sing in the C3 area, and C3 doesn’t “feel” like a low note. Straining, I can hit F2. Anyways, I am also confused about my passagios, but I know I can sing an F4 in full chest and sustain it (without vibrato, which probably means that I’m not very relaxed). I can hit a G4 but it’s mostly yelling and and while it doesn’t hurt, I wouldn’t feel comfortable holding it. In my falsetto/headvoice, I can go as high as D6. With what I think is mixed voice, my highest note is E5 (but I can only do it very quietly). I would never dream of hitting a C5 in full chest. Could you help me? Thanks in advance.
I’m hesitant to disagree with your teacher because I haven’t heard you. That said, your descriptions sound like a baritone voice, and maybe even a bass baritone.
Why does your teacher think you’re a tenor?
He probably thinks I’m a tenor because my vocal “qualities”, except for range, are much closer to those of a tenor than to those of a baritone. My voice is not heavy, I have a hard time projecting it, and it doesn’t sound low like the voice of a baritone. If you were to hear me speaking you would think I would hit much higher than what I really can. When I sing low notes, they just sound like a light voice going really low, as opposed to sounding like a deep voice. That’s one of the reasons I’m confused, it’s as if I had a tenor voice mixed with baritone range. He never told me directly that he thinks I’m a tenor, but he probably does, because when we have “concerts” he always gives me the highest songs, and in the “choir” he put me in the tenor section (but then again that’s not saying much considering there wasn’t a baritone section).
Well, it makes sense that you’d sound like you have a high voice brought down. You’re 15. Your voice will add size and warmth as you get older. In no way do I sound the same now as I did when I was 15, and this is consistent across singers.
If you’re uncomfortable singing as high as your teacher asks you to sing, then you might bring it up and simply let him know. I’d be surprised if he really put up resistance if you state clearly that singing at those high ranges feels bad to you.
Likewise, be careful that you don’t try to sound older and “deeper” than you naturally sound to prove that you’re lower voiced. As I said above, your voice will reveal itself over time, and the most important thing is to just let yourself sound the way you naturally would (with good breath support, diction, and all that of course) and have fun.
Ok. Anyways, I was just curious, because I know that’s it’s not really important to know your voice type (unless you’re singing opera). I will avoid straining and forcing my high notes. Thanks!
By the way, I don’t know if it matters, but I speak in the B2-C3 area.
Hi Ian,
I actually have some doubt about what voice category I really am. As I think I am in the “gray area” for my voice.
I am a musical theater singer, but I learn the classical technique to sing. I am now 27, started my voice training in 23 with no voice training background before. My voice teacher thinks that I am a tenor for now, but she said I might be a lyric baritone as well. Most of the times I sing baritone roles for musical theater. And I was actually placed as a baritone in a pretty big local chorus 3 years ago after they heard me sing and do some vocalizing tests. I can hold a note down to Low F-sharp (recently starting be able to reach to low F and even to Low E when just wake up), can hold a note up to a High B-flat (and can vocalize to High B), even though not very strong tone in both ends. But I can’t sustain in tenor tessitura, blending with a head voice is a must to me start around E4 (passaggio?), otherwise my voice would strain and very easy to get flat, and my voice feels most comfortable when I sing the high baritone materials.
And recently I read another article from a voice teacher that talks about distinguishing the lyric baritone and the tenor voice:
http://www.voiceteacher.com/vocal_fach.html
I emailed him as well, and he said that I am definitely a lyric baritone because of my timbre. And he mentioned about “lyric baritone can sound tenorish if their larynx is slightly high or release the support”, I actually do have a slightly high larynx when I sing and I don’t think I support my voice that proficiently yet. And I also emailed to opera singer and voice teacher Joseph Shore, he thinks I’m a light lyric baritone base on my recordings.
My voice teacher also introduced me to a chiropractor in order for me to reduce tension in my body to get to the upper range easier, even though I do think it helps a bit for that, I think it comes to me way more obvious is that my voice is getting even fuller and juicier in the low and middle range. Hence this further make me think that I might be actually a lyric baritone, but I am not sure whether I am right or not.
Here are 4 of my audio samples, one is more traditional, one is more contemporary songs, and two are pop style using more “tenorish” sound:
Fiddler on the Roof song: http://www.4shared.com/audio/9gfAO5Sq/Tevje_DEMO.html
Letting you go: http://www.4shared.com/audio/GJ6acLti/LettingYouGo_DEMO.html
Mi Morena: http://www.4shared.com/audio/3RofXSCg/MiMorena_Demo.html
Chinese song: http://www.4shared.com/audio/JBFo8Vg5/sevenHundred_c_.html
The first two recordings are after starting chiropractic work, and the 3rd and 4th recordings are before that. But the 1st recording link is the timbre that I use most of the time on stage.
It would be very helpful me if you have time to listen to my demos and reply my email. I want to know whether I am a lyric baritone that hasn’t achieve the full baritone timbre by properly lowering the larynx, or a tenor that hasn’t learned to sustain in tenor tessitura. Thank you very much.
I agree with the other people that you’ve asked. You sound like a baritone to me. A lyric to be sure, so you should be careful of singing anything that’s too “bassy”.
It does sound like you’re coming off your breath support in places, and that will cause your larynx to rise and give a brighter tenor-ish quality. That will take some work that’s away from songs where you can just concentrate on your voice without any of the demands of actual music.
I also hear a fair amount of tongue tension, which is resulting in what I call a “knoedel” (German word for dumpling). The best example of an extreme knoedel is Kermit the Frog and Yoda. You are nowhere near that bad, but it’s something to pay attention to. In my experience, tongue tension is directly tied to lack of breath support; it’s like a crutch to use when you don’t have your breath worked out.
You should read Mr. Jones’ other articles. He has some excellent exercises for navigating the primo passaggio, which is where you need to concentrate.
Otherwise, you’re doing some nice expressive work, and you have a fundamentally pleasant sound at your core. Once you get your breath worked out and that tongue tension settles, I think you’ll hear even more warmth come in.
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I feel like I never experienced the “attack of complete relax sound” by properly lowering the larynx with sufficient breath support, most of the time my larynx already runs slightly up when I just start a note. Is there some exercise that can help with it? My voice teacher also mentioned about she’s guessing I have some tension or sth that’s in the way of taking a full breath, I guess that’s the case. And it’s interesting and good to know that tongue tension is also related to breath support.
One more question, I feel like my timbre resembles a bit of Fischer-Dieskau: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF9DrUXowBo
especially compare to my recording of Fiddler on the roof song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJPiQ4rXxcI
except that I don’t have the same warmth and roundness of him as he is way superior to me in breath control. And like his case, I’ve heard people saying I’m baritone and I’m a tenor before. So do you think if my voice keep maturing and getting better technique, my true singing voice would eventually turn into something like his? I’m not saying I want to sound exactly as him as everybody’s voice is different and we can’t force that, but want to have some idea about what kind of timbre I would have when I keep the progress going.
Your best timbre is undiscovered. Your job – and your teachers’ – is to find it.
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your great article,and i also read all the comments,actually i also got the same problem,which vocal type i really am.I am 19 years old and recently i have the singing lesson for few weeks,the teacher told me that i am a tenor,but actually i don’t think so.I know it is difficult to determine that the vocal type,it depends vocal range and timbre etc.My teacher said,my passggio is between C and D,and my timbre is also a little brighter,but he said,i am still young,my voice will become more darker few years after,so it is also possible that i become a baritone.
When i was Senior,i could sing E2 even E-flat,but not very easily,and i could sing till only E4 and is impossible that sing higher notes.Now i can sing F2 if i warm-up and i can hit the F4/G4 even A4,but with loudly and with many tension,and is also hard for me to hold it so long,because it could be hurt if i do that.If i want to sing my high notes quietly,i have to change from D4/E4 into head voice,and i can hit E5 with head voice.But the problem is,when i sing A3,my larynx is already to prepare to go higher and higher,also a bit tension.That’s why i’m confused about that.I’m not sure where really my Passaggio is.Thank you so much
You’re very welcome.
You should sing what feels comfortable to you. If you don’t feel like tenor repertoire fits you, then it’s safest to avoid it. Of course, I’ve never heard you or worked with you, so I can’t be certain about what you are. If it hurts to sing high, then you really should back off and wait until your technique is more solid. It’s better to let your voice crack (flip in and out of falsetto) than it is to put so much effort behind your voice that you hurt yourself.
Hope this helps!
Ian
I have been confounded by the baritone/tenor fach for years.
After I warm up and am using proper support my passaggi usually move up about a semi-tone. Before warm up I transition from middle c to c# and f to f#. When warmed up it is usually c# to d and f# to g. Is this typical?
I trained as a lyric baritone (studied vocal performance) but my last teacher insisted that I am a tenor. Once or twice in lessons she would hear a substantial shift in vocal color between F#4 and G4 which she believed evidenced my being a tenor. Is transition uncommonly high for a baritone?
Those sound like typical tenor passaggi to me. But it’s not the only consideration to have. You have to feel comfortable singing up there for extended periods.
Hey, Ian
I’m also pretty confused with my voice type. I have a very low speaking voice and when people hear me sing they’re usually surprised that my voice doesn’t sound deeper. I was told once that I’m a tenor by a music teacher but I’m beginning to doubt it.
I know I can sing and support up to an F4 or so, after that it becomes a bit strained. And after G4 I have no choice but to mix in head voice. I also feel like I need to be singing at the top of my range to get out a C5 in head voice.
This made me think that I might not be a tenor after all. But despite this, I feel most comfortable singing between B3 and F4, usually higher in that range.
Although I believe I can go down to around A2/B2, I don’t think this part of my voice and a bit above it sound as pleasing as my upper register.
When singing above that middle C my voice also sounds very different to when I’m singing below it. Below it it’s deep but not too dark and above it it sounds much lighter in comparison and emotive.
So could you help me out? Perhaps I’d need to send a recording in an email, but I’m just confused. I feel comfortable singing D4-E4 for a good part of a song.
It’s really hard to tell from just this information. I have two hypotheses:
That you speak too low to begin with and that your “true” voice is what you use to sing. The feeling you have while singing sounds potentially like a tenor. Singing above an F4 requires actual skill, and you might not be developed enough to do it well yet. You might need to slow down and work out each note above F4. I’m also not sure what definition you’re using for ‘head voice’. Do you mean falsetto?
That you pull up your larynx while you sing and that’s how you sound tenor-ish. The description of your timbre above middle C suggests that while singing you pull up your larynx. That would give you an artificial tenor quality. That doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re a baritone, however. It just means that you need to work out that range from C to F.
As I said, it’s hard to give any solid answers based on what you gave me. Any more details would help.
Send you an email with some old recordings.
Did you get the email?
Yes. Nice voice!
I’m still uncertain. For now, I would probably stick with baritone because you’re still having some difficulty getting to the top of your range. Plus you have some nice warmth to your sound, which may be an indicator.
But who knows. You’re young. Work with a teacher for a few years, and you might open up at the top in a way that lets you go up more easily. For now, I’d advise you to stick with what’s easy and slowly work your way up.
Thanks a lot, Ian.
I’ll stick with baritone for now, then. Just one more curious question. If it’s baritone, what kind is it?
Lyric. You’re young.
I am so flustered with all the information needed to sing well. I am in a choir and am part time cantor at my church. I get many compliments but know I am a novice as I just started singing two years ago. Anyway, to make a long story short, I take lessons (3x so far) My teacher is world class and is a professor at a nearby school. I honestly cannot tell you if a note is a C or a b etc. I know a little about music theory and know 1/2 notes, rests etc as well as knowing when a not is to be a higher pitch.
My teacher says I am a tenor although my voice seems rather baritone. She says I hit E something (forgot what it was) I do want to be a better singer for the glory of my church ministry but am afraid I cannot grasp all the “in’s and out’s” of voice-Is it ok for me to just do as she says (I record our sessions) or must I learn it all?
Thanks
It depends. If you only want to sing in your church ministry, and you trust your teacher completely, then you can just do what she says.
Here’s the thing: if you ever want to teach other people to sing, then you do need to learn as many ins and outs as will fit in your brain. It’s irresponsible not too.
Also there will come a day when your teacher will not be there to guide you. Should you run into vocal trouble it’s important to know methods to fix it. Knowing details about how the voice works will greatly help you in times like those.
And I would encourage you to learn to read music. You’ll feel much more confident when you can read.
Hope this helps!
I am also a bit skeptical about which vocal classification I fall into. I’m 17 and I originally thought I was a tenor but now I’m having doubts. I’m not very versatile with the music lingo but I do know that the lowest i can comfortably go is G2. In the 3rd octave my voice is very strong and powerful. When I get to D4 I notice that my voice, while still strong sounds different than it did below that particular key. When I get to G4 I switch to head voice. The highest I can hit after that is E5(on a good day) normally C5, but this is with head voice (or falsetto? I don’t really know the difference between the two). My music teacher says I’m a bass-baritone, but sometimes I feel like I’m pushing my voice downwards. I think I’m a tenor I’m but not quite sure. Help please!
I am hesitant to disagree with your teacher because I’ve never heard you.
Falsetto is a the sound we make when we yodel (yodel – AY – EE -OO) with the capital letters to show what’s normally in falsetto. Head voice is a middle point between total falsetto and our regular speaking voice. At the top of our range, it feels much closer to falsetto but not totally there yet.
Baritones often don’t have great low notes. Listen to Leonard Warren who was a true baritone but didn’t have very powerful low notes. I just watched Donald McIntyre sing Wotan (on DVD) and his bottom notes are not especially powerful. But he’s as baritone as a baritone gets. Baritones and bass – baritones are different than real basses. A bass is an entirely different animal, and you mustn’t compare yourself to that.
If you inherently feel like a tenor, then I would encourage you to talk with you teacher about it, and test the waters a little. There’s no need to rush into much higher repertoire. Try things that are slightly higher for your voice and see how they feel. If that works, then try slightly higher music from that. Going to fast can just leave you frustrated.
okay, so i’m new to my school’s choir and not sure what voice part i am. i’m 15 years old (about to be 16 in a few months) and i’ve never been classically trained or taught how to sing. right now i am singing baritone, which i have no trouble with singing other than the lowest notes in the range. I don’t have to strain myself to hit the lower notes, but it does feel a little throaty to me. On the other hand, I’m able to hit a D5 or even #D5. I have to sing a bit louder to be able to do this, but i can do it. I know for sure that my voice isn’t done changing (i crack on notes sometimes, and it’s kinda embarrassing). so i’m wondering if i fit in the baritone section or the tenor 2 section of my choir. It’d be great if you could help me out! thanks!
Oh, and my voice isn’t getting any lower. At least i don’t think so, it’s already deepened a lot from puberty. But I guess my voice just hasn’t really finished up with the changes.
Hard to tell. I’d need to hear those D5′s to make sure they’re not pure falsetto. If you want to try tenor, then talk to your choir teacher about it. I just listened to a lot of All State choir auditions, and I was surprised how many young men were singing as basses who really ought to have been singing tenor. So if you can sing tenor, then try it out.
Final note: being 15, your voice may still drop, so try not to get attached to anything about your voice. You’re going to have to test it out every day to see how you’re maturing.
Hello,
very nice write up you have here. I just have a question. I had struggled with the idea of being a baritone or tenor for a long time, but have basically figured out my passagio. It starts at C4 but I’m not sure if it ends at F4 or F#4 it does more like F#4 but would that be accurate?
thanks
Try experimenting with a few different places until you find the overall range where you can make the flip. The chart that I provided is a general recommendation, but I’ve heard of people who’ve had distances greater than a fourth between the primo and the secondo. So your experience in not an impossible one.
What I’ve found is that there are a range of possible choices for your passaggio. It’s not entirely fixed to one place. There seems to be a range of about a minor third where you can decide to make the passaggio move.
For example, mine is around F#, but I can keep pushing up to G if I absolutely feel I must and I can bring the flip down a half step to F if that is the best place.
Hi Ian,
This is Billy again. I recently feel like my voice got a bit more warmth compare to my voice about half year ago after continuing on practicing the breath support and dropping unnecessary vocal weight.
Here is my recent recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsbFChouF-w
Compare to my recordings half year ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJPiQ4rXxcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VZQTYXHEt8
What I heard is that the recent recording has a bit more legato, less push and a smoother approach from the beginning to the end of each phrase, where the recordings half year ago sounded a bit more choppy and did not sound as “big & full” as the recent recording. Even though the recent recording maybe not as artistically perfect. But I am not sure whether I am correct on what I am hearing, so would you mind to let me know what you think? Thank you very much and have a great day.
Billy
Here is another of my recent recording if this would help for my question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWGbxTXwMF0
I know I am still not good in singing lieder like this one and my German still needs work, but I think it may help to hear my vocal detail more clearly.
Hi Billy,
Yes, that does sound a bit better. Good work.
You’re not totally getting your breath engaged. That’s especially apparent to me on the Erlkonig recording. Take in more air and use your body a bit more. I could actually stand a bit more push from your voice as long as it comes from your breath.
Yeah thanks a lot for the reply. I know I still have to work on my breath but just want to know whether I am really making progress or not. “Take in more air and use your body a bit more” is in fact exactly what my teacher is directing me to do. The reason I practice on lieder is also because I can hear the flaws more obviously as non-classical songs can use some “tricks” to hide the flaws more. Again thanks a lot and have a great day.
Hi Ian is Billy again. On Wednesday I did some exercises with my voice teacher that tries to drive the air more consistently by my body, I felt really good on my voice in the lesson and recorded the vowel practice of “Fischerweise” after I got home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vImZk1g3ePA
I personally think the sound come out is beyond the level of my “Yesterday” and “Erlkonig” recordings, even the softer part of this new recording sounds warmer, fuller, and bigger than the louder part of those two recordings to me. May I know is that true for what I notice?
Hi Billy,
Yes, that’s even better. More importantly, you and your teacher are doing the right things. Those vowel combinations will help loosen tongue tension. The breath flow exercises have warmed up your sound.
Good work.
Hello Ian!
I’ve never took any singing classes, and thats why i’m lost with my voice type. And i read your passaggio board, and got confused even more. I think that i’m pure Baritone, but your passaggio board makes me think that i would be “tenorino” or something like that, becouse Bb (below high C) is the last note, that i actually could go for until my voice cracks/flip IF i don’t lighten it up and do this so called passagio thing. i have a link for you, so you can listen. (i still think, that i’m baritone)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88R684cf_Ek
It’s hard to tell from that recording what you are. I could see it either way really, and if you prefer singing baritone, then stick with that. The passaggio charts are primarily for classical singers and people who sing in a somewhat classical style.
Hey Ian,
I’m also 14 and my voice is still unstable. Can you please help me identify if I’m either a bass, baritone, or tenor? My lowest note is a low E and highest note is a high C. I think I am a tenor judging by the range I sing in, but I’m not quite sure.
You probably won’t know for certain for a few years. Your voice is in a transition phase, so it’s best not to get too attached to any one voice type just yet.
Hi my name is elie and im a 25 y.o. male, i was wondering if u can watch my vid and tell me if im a baritone or tenor and what type, ive always been confused with that, im not a professional singer but i do love to sing and was wondering what do u think, any suggestions are much appreciated, ty
. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPbjCGoVA9E&feature=youtu.be
Hi Elie,
Tenor. Keep working to get your larynx relaxed.
Tysm for responding, i had a few voice teachers that told me i was a baritone and others said i was a tenor, thats why i was mostly confused.
btw i forgot to ask what type am i? like a lyric or….
It’s safe to assume lyric with a voice like yours. But it only really matters if you want to sing classical music and opera in particular.
Of course, this is all slightly speculative on my part since I’ve only heard the one clip of you singing.
well depending on the day i can go lower but tysm for ur help, u clarified a lot and i can always sing more if ud like
Hey I’m back again, aha.
I just can’t shake the feeling that I’m a tenor of some sort.
I have drastically improved my technique since the last time I posted but I am no where near perfect. I still find my high notes lack oomph short of shouting them out. I’m 20 this month for the record.
Updates I’ve found:
My voice is much more comfortable singing lightly. I prefer to sing above C4. I prefer singing lightly rather than powerfully.
I notice a slight change in timbre above D4/Eb4/E4 (breath support changes where exactly but it’s always around those notes) and another acoustical change and timbre change around G4.
The most unstable part of my voice also falls between the notes E4 and A4.
Using this easily produced way of singing the lowest note I can reach is A2 before I have no choice but to use vocal fry. I start sounding baritonish on my low notes.
I can sound like a lyric baritone and possess a similar range if I use only chest (like I would talking) but this is difficult for me and requires me to shout the upper notes of G4 and A4. It also hurts my throat to “sing” like this. I would describe this as feeling like every note is difficult in it’s own way (low notes feel forced down and upper notes feel forced out)
I keep falling in to believing I’m a lyric baritone and then changing my mind and believing a tenor. I read things about both baritones and tenors and I honestly could be either.
I’m tall and thin. Tall people are generally lower voices and my talking voice does not sound high which makes me believe I’m a baritone.
I feel much more free in my throat as a tenor though.
How can I decide for definite which I am?
Hi Aidan,
It is entirely possible that you are a tenor.
You are still quite young – vocally speaking – and your voice is still in a slow state of transition. If you can, try to not worry about it too much. Are you working in choirs where you need to make a decision? If so, then sing whatever feels best. It sounds like that’s tenor from your most recent post.
Height, yes, can be a kind of indicator, but it’s not as reliable as we’d like. How far does your Adam’s Apple extend? That’s more reliable because it gives some indication of the length of your vocal folds. But I’ve seen tenors with healthy sized Adam’s Apple’s, so that’s not perfect either.
Baritone, yes, will feel bad if you really try to sound like a baritone. Again, you’re young, so you won’t sound particularly baritone-ish just yet even if you are.
But it does sound like you prefer tenor, so go with that for awhile.
Hi Ian!
I’m 18 years old and I started learning one year ago. I have quite low speaking voice although with very high vocal formanta (bright and feels like higher than actually is). I speak around G2 usually. That’s also the know where I feel that sound is best at bottom, although can get down to C#2 without any problems and at better days to A1 (of course it won’t sound that resonant).
I feel like there’s something happening around B3 and I have to work more with my body to support it. For several months had problem with D4 and yesterday with new teacher I achieved F#4. It sounded like my maximum. Sound was consistent and strong as hell (I’ve got big voice) but I kinda couldn’t hear myself that mnuch when I was singing along with teacher. Voice felt placed very much on the top. It was very hard for me to support it and few more takes caused some muscular pain at abdominal area.
Note which I find is my middle and feels best is C#-D3. Not much chance to be dramatic tenor, eh? I have rather dark timbre at bottom while singing, but it brightens up on top.
Hi Ian,
I read your article about baritone and tenor voice. I’m 25 years old and Im kind of confused about my type of voice. In the morning when I get up I can sing a G2 (from baritone range) but at the same time I can also perform effortless high B flats and high Bs right after getting up. I just recorded a bit of my voice and put it on youtube. The finale note of Tonio in “a mes amis” and some arpeggio stuff with a high d, also the beginning phrase of Taminos aria in e major. Would be great if you could listen to it and tell me whats your guess about my “fach”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtBiUTKrdfo
Thanks man!
Hi Markus,
Unless you’re doing something totally bizarre to give yourself that timbre, I’d say that you’re a tenor with no hesitation. Your timbre is very light, and your top notes sound pretty easy. You still have technique work to do, but it sounds like you’re gravitating towards the right material in the Donizetti and Mozart. Stay in the light lyric side of things. If you can work up the agility, then you might look at Rossini too later, but that will take a lot of work. All opera will.
We can all wake up and sing pretty low notes, but they’ll likely go away throughout the day as we work the higher part of our voice.
Hello Ian,
thanks for your last advise. I got a serious problem – and Im asking for your advise and help. Im currently enroled as a student at a conservatoire in classical singing in Austria. After every lesson I feel a certain tension in the area of my vocal cords. My teacher is forcing me to put much pressure on the vocal cords – especially in the middle register (from D4 to G4 and A4), also she wants me to carry up chest voice really high (she provoces me to sing “un aura amorosa” like a jugendlicher Heldentenor).
I agree with you totally – Im a light voice, but it seems that she wants to make my voice bigger than its actually is. Do you know a good teacher in Austria?
I’ll email you.
Ive got a question about voice to ask is it weird to be a tenor, then later become a bass/baritone? back in my 20s I could go as high as bflat above middle c I would always be placed on 2nd/low tenor a few times baritone but 90% of the time 2nd tenor. Iam almost 40 now, and now anything above F# above middle c on the piano I do in falsetto, I can go all the way down to C2? the c thats 2 legger lines below the bass clef,im classified now as a bass-baritone, is it weird to have that big of a voice difference?
That’s a pretty big change, but it’s not unheard of. Our voices reveal themselves over time, and in general they tend to go down after we stabilize our voices in post-adolescence until we’re elderly, where they often rise a bit (for men).
It sounds like when you were a tenor you were a low one. Baritones can have a consistent Bb and can often sing as second tenor. Your voice just dropped naturally and moved you out of that higher type.
Thanks for the reply, yes big change indeed, as my voice teacher puts it ive always really been a baritone, but with tenor extentions. Now that ive gotten older i’ve lost that tenor extention, and have even gotten a more full sound. My voice teacher has even said she would actually like to retrain me for bass rolls because she says my voice sounds better on a something like sarastro from queen of the night. the passaggio above helps explain some of it.
I know theres a distinct feeling in the voice at A3 where if i dont change my tone i will be in falsetto, then at D#4-F#4 it needs to be atleast mezzo forte if not forte or again i’ll flip into falsetto without egnough volume.In a way its kinda sad for me to be singing in the bass section after used to being in the tenor section lol. My voice teacher says as time goes on i might even lose the bass-baritone classification and just be bass, not a big booming bass, but still out of the baritone range that will be really sad if that happens. Still thats not the end of the world, im sure there are tenors out there that would like to sing bass wouldnt it be nice if we could sing both bass and tenor!
Hey Ian Im very glad to come across this post, it has cleared a lot up but I have many questions about the voice.
I just discovered the voice between my chest and head it feels like a light chest voice and it kind of resonates in my head, what are some exercises to help strengthen this register and how can I make it sound more chesty than heady.
I want to set up a daily routine of practice because I am extremely determined to improve my voice, for the past two years I’ve just been practicing songs but I feel that I have a lot to gain from some operatic exercises, can you suggest exercises that I can practice daily for say 30 minutes?
Lastly my greatest influences on voice and music in general are Jeff and Tim Buckley(kind of obsessed with them) and the versatility opand range of both of their voices is really discouraging sometimes because I can hardly ever produce a sound like them. I think it’s because my passaggio is lower is it still possible for a bass to belt in chest c 5? I can hit c6 in head voice with little strain. Sorry for the arrangment of these questions but I am eager for some answers. Thank you so much in advance. Patrick (16)
Hey Ian Im very glad to come across this post, it has cleared a lot up but I have many questions about the voice.
I just discovered the voice between my chest and head it feels like a light chest voice and it kind of resonates in my head, what are some exercises to help strengthen this register and how can I make it sound more chesty than heady.
I want to set up a daily routine of practice because I am extremely determined to improve my voice, for the past two years I’ve just been practicing songs but I feel that I have a lot to gain from some operatic exercises, can you suggest exercises that I can practice daily for say 30 minutes?
Lastly my greatest influences on voice and music in general are Jeff and Tim Buckley(kind of obsessed with them) and the versatility and range of both of their voices is really discouraging sometimes because I can hardly ever produce a sound like them. I think it’s because my passaggio is lower is it still possible for a bass to belt in chest c 5? I can hit c6 in head voice with little strain. Sorry for the arrangement of these questions but I am eager for some answers. Thank you so much in advance. Patrick (16)
I’m not sure what you mean regarding making your head register sound more chesty. Proper male head voice (if we use that term) feels like a baby cry but sounds much louder. Start small and slowly work up.
If you search for “vocalise” on this site, you’ll probably find plenty to work with.
I’m not really familiar with Tim Buckley’s singing. But you should sing in whatever range is most comfortable. It’s possible that extreme high notes are a sign, but it’s not a guarantee that you should be singing higher. Find what you can sing for an extended time, and that’s your best range.
I have some questions regarding vocal fach. I have been singing second bass since high school. However, my teacher discovered that I have the passaggio of a tenor. I went on singing tenor for a year and was in complete and utter pain no matter what I did. That said, I finally told her that NOTHING was making this easier and she retested my voice and said that I had been forcing out my high notes and that must have been what confused her regarding my passaggio. My range goes from and Eb below the bass clef (it’s a pretty loud Eb) to a high C (on a good day). I am completely confused as to what I should do at this point. Any tips?
If it hurts, then it’s not really part of your range yet. Sing in whatever range is most comfortable. As your technique improves, you may find that you have greater flexibility.
The passaggio is primarily an acoustic phenomenon related to the size of the vocal tract. So it’s possible to have a high passaggio but the long vocal folds of a lower voice type.
I just wanna know.. what is the difference between head voice and falsetto?
That’s a blog post in itself, and I’ll do it one of these days and let you know.
I’m convinced that I’m a baritone. I couldn’t sing Michael Bolton or Air Supply without discomfort, but I’m comfortable with Barry Manilow songs. Then again, I could also sing high in falsetto. But I would like to know your professional opinion. Here are some of my covers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcYNLQnFL3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4unLdUYbWo
This one is a clip I uploaded just now for reference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYn3B6MDrnk&feature=youtu.be
My questions are:
1. Am I a baritone really or possibly a tenor or a countertenor?
2. Can I sing low songs and high (female) songs, or should I remain singing songs in my male voice?
3. Does frequent singing in falsetto harm the voice?
Thank you!
1. I hear a tenor voice, but it’s hard to be 100% certain in the genres you sing. Countertenor is a choice that some men make who have excellent falsettos.
2. Pop music tenor is different than classical tenor. Pop singers extend the range by doing things that classical singers wouldn’t do. That can lead to discomfort.
3. No. Not that I’ve found.
I am 14 turning 15. My voice is relatively stable and started cracking a year or two ago. In choir I sing tenor. I can easily hit the C below middle C and can hit the G/G sharp and sometime A above middle C. When I sing those higher notes, they sound HIGH (if that makes any sense). What I was wondering was, am I a tenor or baritone, and if I’m a baritone is there anything I can do to change that? For example, singing lessons, or exercises? I have never had singing lessons and don’t like to sing in public, so really the first time I’ve ever sung was all the singing I’ve done in my school choir.
When I say HIGH, I mean that the sound isn’t a deep sound, like most operatic baritones I listen to.
You aren’t going to sound like any operatic baritones or even tenors. You’re just too young.
For now, try to not worry about whether you’re a tenor or baritone because your voice may still be changing and settling. Just keep singing what actually feels comfortable. If you’re comfortable singing tenor right now, then just stick with that. Your voice may continue to change downward, or it may not. It’s hard to tell at your age.
For most people, they can’t change what their voice is. Our voices are primarily determined by the length of our vocal folds, and there’s nothing that can change that.
Thank you for the reply. Theoretically, if I sang in the higher register of my voice will it possibly help in making me a tenor?
I am actually really confused as to what I am, because when I sing, my lower register sounds airy and lacks strength, but when I sing higher my voice feels quite comfortable. It’s almost as if I only sort of start sounding good on about C4 up, otherwise my notes lack much strength and are rather airy. What could that mean?
You’re voice sounds like it’s still changing, and that’s why it’s breathy in parts. It takes years, and it won’t settle for a while. When it does, your voice type will slowly become more obvious. Please try not to be worried about that: you will be what you will be. No amount of exercises can dramatically change your voice type.
Sing whatever feels comfortable for you right now, and leave your future voice to another day.
Okay. Thank you very much for your help
Hi Ian,
This is Billy again. Recently I have recorded the song “Fever” two times. One was recorded last week when I was not in a good vocal condition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvpXPjdF5bo
One was recorded yesterday with a way better vocal condition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51thGvpDHSE
I feel like the 1st recording while it sounds pretty good, the voice sounds a bit “squeezed” and more like “half-voiced singing”. The 2nd recording has a much richer/fuller sound and closer to a “supported sound”. May I know is that true for what I heard?
Hi, I hope my question doesn’t stump you. I’ve been to three different credible vocal coaches. Two of them say I’m a tenor, but the other one said that I am definitely a baritone. When I wake up in the morning I can go from an F2 up to a D4. As the day progresses I can go from a Bb2 up to an A4, without going into falsetto. With all these variables in mind, what would you consider my vocal range to be, Baritone, or Tenor?
Uncertain. How old are you? Just from this info I’d say baritone. Baritones have high A’s when they’re warmed up. But there are other variables to consider.
Hi Ian,
I’m 16 years old and I need to know how drastically can my voice change between now and adult hood. At the moment I am an accepted Lyric Baritone.
Your voice can change drastically in timbre, power, and stamina from the time adolescent voice change is over to what one might call vocal adulthood. Oftentimes there is a gradual shifting downward of pitch range. Part of this is technique, but part of this is just our slow maturation process. As I approach 30, I am continually surprised at how my voice is changing. And it will continue to change throughout my life, as it will for you.
With that in mind, I would be surprised if you were a true lyric baritone in the operatic sense because you’re just not an adult yet. Adult lyric baritones who sing operatic repertoire professionally are just in a different place vocally than any teenager can be. Of course you should sing “lyrically”, but be careful of comparing yourself to adult baritones.
Hi Ian,
I am 14 years old, my voice is breaking and I am wishing like no tomorrow that when my voice is fully broken I am going to be a Tenor.
Until recenlty, (more like 6 months ago), I had a reasonably extensive vocal range that I could exert some considerable power into.
Now, my vocal range is from G2 (probably A2 realistically speaking) to Middle C. Anything above middle C, my voice falters and goes quite airy and/or cracks, but with no disscomfort. To hit anything above middle C, I have to use my “head” voice, and that only goes about 2 notes higher. With Anything Below G2, my voice does crack and with discomfort.
Please could you give me a few tips on how to strengthen my diaphragm voice and extend my vocal range, and any thoughts on what type of voice I will end up having?
Many Thanks,
Ed
Hi Ed,
It sounds like your voice is still changing, so hang tight. Unfortunately, there’s nothing you can do to make your voice turn one way or the other. Your true voice will reveal itself over time. For now, focus on what you can sing comfortably.
Hi Ian,
Thank you so much for your reply, I guess I’ll have to wait and see
Ed
Hey Ian. I turned 17 a couple days ago, and I’ve been working with my voice teacher for 2 years. She classified me as more of a lyric tenor. I sing classical songs and can sing songs like o del amato ben, and on Broadway, Bring Him Home with the best sound utilizing my vibrato. I sing a low Bb2 most comfortably, but require strain to an A2 sometimes. For example, in music of the night, when the phantom sings night TIME, I can’t hit the low Ab4. I sing high G4 in chest comfortably without strain. My highest note before straining, however, is an A4 which is also in chest. I can’t sing the word”Will” at an Ab4 with comfort, but other vowels are comfortable singing at an A4. So I could sing at and Ah vowel comfortably at an A4. I crack at B4, which my voice teacher says is especially high. My falsetto is actually terrible though, and requires strain past G4, similar to my chest voice. So when I crack into my falsetto it sounds breathy, unpleasent and uncomfortable. I can sing C5 in falsetto but nothing past that. I don’t know how to find my passagio though. And I don’t know how to tap into my mixed voice yet. My bass friends can easily sing past me in falsetto. What would you classify me as? How do I tap into my mixed voice and work on my falsetto?
Thanks,
Harry
Hi Ian,
I’m 19 and a rock singer with clean vocals. I started doing some excercises about 5 months ago, but irregulary and extended my vocal range. I can hit F5 on live performance without going into falsetto and hold Eb with vibrato. My practice range is E2 – G5 (strained) (Bb5 with falsetto). I can hold high notes, but sometimes I have a hard time singing in passaggio zone, because of voice cracks. I’ve never had a professional training, but I do vocal excercises at home. Sometimes I have voice cracks when I speak. My voice lacks depth in lower notes and my comfortable range is about C3 – A4, anything lower lacks depth and is a bit shaky ,but people keep telling me that I will get my real voice when I reach 23. What is your suggestion? What should I do to get stronger voice?
Thanks a lot,
Mirnes
Oh and if you could tell me what excercises to do to add vocal fry to my higher notes. Thanks again.
Hey there, I am 18 years old and it’s been one year and a half since I started taking opera lessons.My primo passaggio is at E4 and the secondo at G4(yes I know it’s significantly shorter than in most people).I used to be able to go down to E2 easily (it has become strenuous lately though) and I’ve hit up to B4(although it wasn’t very good) during training in full head voice (E6 in falsetto) and I’ve sung a few counter tenor arias quite efficiently.I have a metallic timbre and my very low notes sound dark and manly.Plus I’ve pull off the tenor tessitura and the high A natural of a duet from Tosca without much trouble.So.. Based on the above mentioned facts, why do you think my teacher still refuses to admit that I’m a tenor?she says that my voice looks like it’s going to get deeper in the future.But the thing is, I hit puberty roughly five years ago.Personally I doupt there is chance that my vocal chords have that much of developement ahead so that my passaggios drop down at least a minor third to much those of a baritone.I’m 90% sure that I’m a spinto tenor.What do you think?
Hi Ian,i just turned 14,and my vocal range is from e2(d2) to a4(bb4) which i can use in a songs,but in vocal exercises i go to b4,or sometimes c5.But i can’t stay on a4.I did vocal exercises.I start being uncomfortable above f#4,it’hard for me to sing there.I am most comfortable in a baritone range now.Three months ago i could sing just to e4.Can you tell me which vocal exercises should i do,and what can my voice type be in future?I want to be a tenor,so is there any chance to be it ?I would like to send you video to tell me what do you think.Sorry,for my English.